Document 140

From stenographic report of Orgbiuro session "On Young Pioneer Work," 7 May 1933

RGASPI, f. 17, op. 114, d. 236, ll. 193-201. Typewritten copy.

KAGANOVICH: What interests us the most is to hear from you what the Pioneers themselves are unhappy about; what kinds of opinions they express and what are they unhappy about?

DORFMAN: The major shortcoming is this. What does the Pioneer demand? That he be the master of his organization.

KAGANOVICH: Look at the kind of language you are using. We are not asking about this formula. Tell us in plain language, the way you talk with the youngsters and they talk with you.

DORFMAN: They are unhappy that there are no special technical groups.

KAGANOVICH: That's all they're lacking? That's all they miss?

DORFMAN: There's no color in their work.

KAGANOVICH: What does color mean?

DORFMAN: There's no club.

KAGANOVICH: Now you tell us, do they want to dance, and with whom? Do the boys want to dance with the girls, or don't they care?

DORFMAN: That of course makes no difference (laughter).

KAGANOVICH: Please, Comrade Pioneer leaders, don't be shy, describe things in plain terms, don't try to use language that plays up to us. Tell us what Pioneers want. Do they want to have dancing, do they want to go to a museum, study art, or go to the theater or to the pictures? What do they want? Do they want to go to the pictures by themselves or to be taken, how many times do they want to go on their own, on their own without supervision, or under supervision? Do they want to be under supervision or not, and if so, how much?

DORFMAN: What do Pioneers want? They want to see a good picture. They don't like to go on an organized basis.

KAGANOVICH: Do they go on an organized basis?

DORFMAN: Yes.

KAGANOVICH: Are movies shown in school?

DORFMAN: Yes. Our school, for example, has a movie projector.

KAGANOVICH: What movies are shown?

DORFMAN: Most of all we run scientific pictures, as an aid, related to the study of some subject.

KAGANOVICH: But what pictures do the Pioneers like the most?

DORFMAN: Fights. Wherever there are fisticuffs, wherever people are leaping around.

KAGANOVICH: What else?

DORFMAN: Usually you can hear this kind of talk among the Pioneers: William Hart appears there, American actresses are in that. Now they'll spread the word, get about 10 kids together and go to the pictures on their own.

KAGANOVICH: On what basis do they get together?

DORFMAN: The Pioneer unit has a work plan to go to the pictures three times a month. They fulfill that. But apart from that three or four youngsters get together and when classes are over they run to the movie theater to see a picture that interests them.

KAGANOVICH: What pictures do the girls like the most? Or won't they say? What else do the kids want? Are they interested, for instance, in dancing?

DORFMAN: They're not very interested in dancing on a mass scale.

KAGANOVICH: Do they get to dance often?

DORFMAN: At every school dance.

KAGANOVICH: How many times a month are these dances held?

DORFMAN: Twice a month, but there are other evening functions as well.

KAGANOVICH: What functions are those?

DORFMAN: A shockworker's evening, a Pioneer detachment evening and a school evening.

KAGANOVICH: Where are these functions held? Describe some specific function.

DORFMAN: Well we had an evening at school that was devoted to the issue of implementing the TsK's decision on the work of the Young Pioneer organization. This evening was arranged and conducted together with parents and the community. There was a short report at this function by the secretary of the party cell on implementation of the TsK's decision, then a representative of the TsK of the Komsomol spoke and afterward there was a brief report on the work of our Pioneer base. We awarded radios to the best shockworking Pioneers as prizes. Five radios were handed out, and altogether twenty eight people received prizes. After that there were amateur performances by the youngsters themselves.

KAGANOVICH: What kind of performances were these, and how did they manifest themselves?

DORFMAN: The units performed, they did physical-fitness exercises, they performed dances, there were individual dances, say from the ballet The Red Poppy and The Little Apple [a dance performed to a sailor's song of the same name--Trans.], and there was dancing for everybody. Then there was a stage production by the youngsters themselves and there was a living newspaper. And later, of course, there were refreshments for the youngsters.

KAGANOVICH: But does your school allow dancing in general? Where can the youngsters display some bravado and show off some tricks--is such dancing allowed? For example, the Kazachok ["The Cossack," a folk dance with an accelerating tempo--Trans.]? You don't have dances like that?

DORFMAN: The youngsters don't know the Kazachok, but they like to dance the russkaia ["The Russian," any of several Russian folk dances of varying tempos.--Trans.]. They like "The Little Apple" and there are people who like to dance the Shamil' [Named after the North Caucasian Muslim leader who defied Russian conquest in the mid-19th century].

KAGANOVICH: And what about the foxtrot in your school? Do they dance it legally or illegally?

DORFMAN: They don't dance the foxtrot, and they don't dance it illegally, either.

KAGANOVICH: They probably dance it, you just don't know about it. Well, what else are the youngsters interested in? You referred to technical groups, what kind of groups are those?

DORFMAN: A radio group, a sawing group, and the cinema.

KAGANOVICH: What else?

DORFMAN: A percussion orchestra has been organized. They are very interested in this.

KAGANOVICH: Which children are most interested in these groups? Do these groups encompass a small group of children?

DORFMAN: The fifth and sixth groups. I would say that these groups do not encompass the majority, of course, and here is why--for one thing there are no leaders, for another there are no funds.

KAGANOVICH: What else are they interested in?

DORFMAN: They are interested in a lot of things.

KAGANOVICH: And the children, the Pioneers, how do they get along with each other? Are they indifferent, or are there serious arguments, animosity, egotism, this kind of selfishness? What predominates the most? Maybe you could give a few examples from your work.

DORFMAN: I can describe an incident of a political nature and an incident of an academic nature. The first incident. This was the situation. One girl stopped coming to school. She was a girl from the second group--twelve years old. She didn't come in for three days, some old woman dragged her to church and she went around there with the priests, collecting money, cleaning windows, washing floors and so forth. I dealt with this matter myself. I went with two other Pioneers, we ascertained the reason, and we discovered that the well-known priest Vedensky and another priest twenty two years old were exploiting this girl. We managed to find out where she lived. They were giving her packages to distribute, and what they were putting in the packages were prayers and crosses to distribute to adults.

KAGANOVICH: And you persecuted this girl in school, of course?

DORFMAN: On the contrary.

KAGANOVICH: Did she admit her errors? Did she write a declaration or not?

DORFMAN: We did not distribute wide notification of the detachment's meeting on this matter. We just had a preholiday rally. We just had a preholiday rally where we described this incident in passing. True, it was very easy for us to uncover this. The second incident has to do with how youngsters relate to other youngsters. We have situations like this one. A girl at our school is the chairman of the student committee (uchkom), and based on the fact that she is the best student they began to persecute her: they started saying that she goes with somebody and that is how she gets good grades.

KAGANOVICH: How old is she?

DORFMAN: Fifteen, she is in the sixth group.

KAGANOVICH: Are there fights between the boys, and if so, what causes them?

DORFMAN: Fights break out for no special reason. [Somebody says:] "Come out, let's fight." They just go for a fistfight to see who is stronger, who will beat whom.

KAGANOVICH: But in general, on what basis do fights occur, is there any hatred toward each other?

DORFMAN: Yes, there is.

KAGANOVICH: Based on what?

DORFMAN: We had an incident at school. A group got together--two boys and two girls. They got together at one boy's home on the pretext that they gathered to study subjects in which they were behind, and they shut themselves up in a separate room and took vodka in there. Their mother discovered these goings-on, she discovered that one boy came with half a bottle of vodka.

KAGANOVICH: How old is he?

DORFMAN: Thirteen. But they were not able to drink it, because the mother knocked, they opened the door and she found the vodka, took it away and gave them a real tongue-lashing. Somebody at school let the cat out of the bag, told a girl, the girl told the teacher, and they began to take up the issue in class. And after that they wanted to arrange a fistfight. There are also fights that are related to thefts.

[BORIS] ROIZENMAN [a member of the party's Central Control Commission]: But are there any fights based on envy, say, somebody is doing better in his studies or eats better or dresses better? Do fights occur because of that?

DORFMAN: As an example, let's look at one class. We have boys who are well provided with money and pens and notebooks, they are fully provided for, yet they still steal, and not only in school, but from their own parents as well.

KAGANOVICH: You don't seem to be able to describe relationships in general between the children, meaning their very essence.

DORFMAN: I did describe them.

KAGANOVICH: I am asking how much our children have already progressed in truly human terms with respect to how they relate to one another, with respect to getting rid of the mentality of the past, egotism, vanity, selfishness, with respect to getting rid of all the bad elements that have lingered from the past. After all, we have to say that in regard to the human psyche eighty percent still survives from the past in our country. So I would like to find out how things are going with respect to ridding our children of these vestiges of the past.

DORFMAN: I have already cited this case. Because a girl is a good student, people try to take the wind out of her sails and begin to taunt her to the effect that she supposedly used to go with somebody or that she has a good relationship with the chairman of the uchkom and he is giving her good grades. Another situation has to do with thievery, when even well-to-do youngsters still steal. We have these cases too. Children sometimes assemble not only from a single building but from a neighboring one and organize attacks on children from other buildings.

KAGANOVICH: Are there ever any arguments at your meetings?

DORFMAN: Almost never. Somebody will give a report, people will ask questions, some people will have their say and at that point the meeting ends.

I would also like to say something on another issue. We have special-education schools. Nobody is working with these schools. Yet this issue is very important and it requires a lot of attention. It is mostly workers' children who attend these schools; retarded children, underdeveloped and handicapped children. There are many cases of thievery among them, they act like hooligans. I would like to figure out what needs to be done for them, some definite framework should be set up, and the issue of special-education schools in general must receive serious attention. We also have to raise the issue of books, the issue of literature for these children. We have five such schools in our raion. It is very hard to work in these schools. The children act very much like hooligans and do nothing but steal. These are sick children--they have handicaps. There must be very intensive work done with them.